Reading as Writers

I'm always happy when books inspire food. And vice versa!

p.s. As to that particular version of Lindt, it's what could be called 'chocolate with BITE!'

Theresa, yup, Elena (and Kelley) certainly engaged me enough to make me consider reading the next instalment: STOLEN. I like E's stubborn, mouthy, take-care-of-myself nature, and even her uncertainty. Yes, she may be the only female werewolf, but she's pretty damned humand and no wilting flower; nor do the male werewolves expect her to be anything but what she is. There's acceptance.

And thanks, Carin! I had fun with that. Wouldn't it be fun if all blurbs were entertaining? And came with chocolate. Lindt. 75% cocoa. With chili. Mmmm.

Carin - I'm always ready for chocolate so it's not just you.

Ingrid - you've captured much of what I like about Elena. I also like that though she is the only female of the werewolf society she doesn't let that stop her from making her own decisions. She thinks for herself and doesn't take any crap. If you get the chance to read Kelley's other books with these characters I think you'll like them - like the growth Elena goes through both in her life and emotionally.

Dropped by to play some idle hookey and now I'm all revved up and HAVE TO READ THIS BOOK...! Ingrid, I think you've just invented a new form of book jacket blurb. Very effective!
(Is it me or does anyone else have a sudden craving for chocolate?)

Theresa: LOL! Ah, set that Caramilk question aside; much better to eat the sucker, and to hell with the 'big mystery'. I guess many stories are simply about discovery of the self, and acceptance, no matter how they're told, which *eeew* sounds really squeamy-touchy-feely-dr-philish. But what I like most about Elena is her blind determination to be 'better', even when she realizes that she's been masking who she really is ("aggressive and snappish", "violent tendencies, moody, angry, hot-tempered" ha!) underneath that werewolf excuse. She is what she is, but she'll work at the rough edges and remain in the larger world too, while working at accepting what she is.

Ingrid, I couldn't have put it better. When you did the Bitten/Twilight comparison it got me thinking about the book(s) I'm writing. Some of the broad scope ideas are similar even if many details are not. Funny but I had not realized it before. Now that damn Caramilk question keeps popping into my mind.

My first time through Bitten I kept expecting something to happen everytime Philip was mentioned. I thought he was going to be mixed up in the mutt plot or betray Elena in some way. Even though she kept thinking she was so lucky to have him I couldn't see it. I guess it was more a good example of how much we can blind ourselves to reality, convince ourselves that what we have is what will make us happy even when deep down we know it won't.

Theresa, the way I figure it, everything we've ever read, every movie we've ever seen, every story we've ever heard (sounds like a Police song, doesn't it?) well, it all goes into the brain pot, like that ol' stone soup, gets mixed and stewed, and somewhere along the way it resurfaces, renewed (though not totally new) via our imagination. Guess one could also argue that, given our limited human experience, there's bound to be more than one person on the planet coming up with the same idea. Yeah, sure makes ya do a Caramilk bit of wondering!

[ever so slight spoiler alert] whoa just finished book stayed up till 2 last night but left end for today bitten by compulsion to keep going pages kept flipping frenetic couldn't close book it just wouldn't close I swear lots of blood scheming hunting outmanoeuvring sniffing wind running running torn loyalties throats and whoa determined girl werewolf ignores boy rules risks scruff kicking major wolf butt in cinematic fashion saves day and happily ever after ahhhhhhh nicely done

waaahwhat'llIreadtonight?! ohalrightcouldreadproustiguesssigh.

Ingrid now you've really got me thinking. How much do we as writers subconsciously incorporate similar parallels from the books we read into our own writing?

Hi, all!

While still considering finding/buying/reading a copy of BITTEN, I tripped across an original hardcover, in good shape, and snapped it up. Naturally. And I've been reading...

Have to agree with Theresa; the beginning struck me as slow. I read a bit, put it down. Read a bit more. Put it down. (To be sure, this isn't my usual choice of read.) However, the story finally drew me in, and I'm enjoying it! It's also surprising how many parallels one can draw between this book (2001) and TWILIGHT (2005) (curiosity drove me to read that one too). The Pack is much like the Cullens, a 'family' of (mostly) unrelated individuals who desire a quiet life in sanctuary (Stonehaven). They too are 'vegetarians', preferring to eat anything but humans. Then there's the girl - in this case, Elena - out of place, wanting to be something other than she is, trying to find 'home'; there are the rogue "mutts" who wreak havoc; the eye-candy werewolves;...and other things that make one wonder "Hmm, did Meyers read BITTEN?" Then again, they say there are no new stories; just old stories rejigged and retold.

I have to confess that when I was first asked to be facilitator if we had Bitten as the book selection I had to ask who Kelley was. I read Bitten a couple of days later. I found the beginning slow but once I got further into the book I liked both her unique concept for a werewolf society and Elena, the protagonist.

After that I decided to read a more recent book so I chose Frostbitten. The rest of the books I bought at the June & July breakfasts. The books I described here continue the story of the characters in Bitten.

Kelley also has two novels about a female hitwoman named Nadia - Exit Strategy & Made to be Broken. If werewolves don't appeal to some readers they may want to try these books instead. For me these are keepers.

I do read this genre, fantasy-horror but there are far more books about vampires than werewolves. And not all Kelley's books are about werewolves. She has necromancers, demons, witches - I still have those books to get to. I think I can relate to these books because that is the type of novel that I am writing. It was never my intention but that is what comes out on the page so that's what I'm writing.

I also read other genres - romance, espionoge, fantasy, adventure ... And thanks to you, Carin, I have expanded my usual reading material to include the last couple of book club selections. I can't say they were my favourites but it did open my mind to the other literature out there.

I'm interested to hear what others think about Kelley's writing & the genre. I'm not sure how many members enjoy the fantasy related genre but I love it.

Lovely descriptions of those covers, Theresa. And you've read all those books? Good lord. You're definitely qualified as facilitator. Also maybe as President of the Kelley Armstrong fan club, Whitby chapter. It's such a beautiful thing to love a particular writer like that, the thrill of anticipating the next book (and to be the writer who is anticipated... even better!).

I still haven't read the book and thought I'd get a copy from the library until I can buy one from Shelley, but there's a waiting list of 11 people ahead of me. (All WCDR members I hope!) I did, however, read the first chapter excerpt -- a link to which I've put on the RAW site under Current Book. Her sentences are amazing. I was both annoyed at the super-intense chopiness, and completely unable to stop reading...

I think I understand why you're a fan, Theresa. How did you discover her? Is this a genre you read, werewolves I mean, or is it her specific style that you love?

I can only talk about the books I have in 'The Underworld' series which have the black covers with the images Carin has mentioned. Most of them seem to be tied to the story albeit some more than others.

My copy of 'Bitten' has only blood drops across the cover so that's self explanatory.

'Stolen' has a pair of female hands & arms tied together by a piece of cloth. In this book the protaganist is kidnapped so that picture works.

'Broken' has the protaganist pregnant & the cover shows a young male trying to escape through some type of film/gauze/net. This could represent the pregnancy or it could be symbolic for the other problem in the book - an open dimension portal that can release zombies etc. including Jack the Ripper. The cover could be one of them struggling to breach the portal.

'No Humans Involved' shows a pair of female legs with toenails painted bright red and a gauzy material flowing around the legs. This book starts with three spiritualists who are going to attempt to raise the ghost of Marilyn Monroe. My only guess here is that might represent Marilyn.

'Frostbitten' has the back of the neck, shoulders & upper back showing. The spinal cord protrudes from the back and shows a number of bumps. I wonder if this might be a depiction of the body beginning its change to wolf form. If not, I don't know what the significance would be.

All these covers have a slick, modern feel and I think they are trying to attract the attention of a reader who is looking for a modern setting/story with werewolves/demons etc. - a little subliminal marketing.

Here's a question: I've noticed all Kelley Armstrong's covers show women in various states of undress. Lots of shapely skin, bare backs, etc. Now why do you suppose that would be? Who are these books targetting with those covers?

And no, I have not yet read the book, so I'll leave that end of conversation to the folks that have. But I AM eager to talk a little 'marketing' generally... What are those covers supposed to be saying?

Good try James. You're not that far off with your guesses.

HERE ARE MY ANSWERS:

Some are real guesses, some are "I have no idea, so they're best hunches".

1. Werewolf

2. Bitten by a werewolf or fathered by one.

3. Hairiness?

4. Victims?

5. Vampire?

6. Silver stake or bullet

7. Vincent Price?

Frank, welcome to the discussion page. A good try with some imaginative answers.

Now about Bitten: I found the prologue and the first chapter or so a little slow but the plot picks up soon after.

There were a couple of things that caught my interest early on - 1. the new twist on werewolf society & 2. Elena's narrative voice. The protagonist isn't your typical sugar & spice female but someone who is funny, sarcastic, grumpy and messed up. The more I read the more I like her.

Question (1) Werwolf

(2) Being bitten by one (Werewolf) Being born that way from bestial relations with an animal by your forebears,not with bears you understand but perahps wolves.

(3) sexual prowness. This is just a geuss from watching True Blood.

(4) Un packs? Food? Victims?

(5) Human Race, Cuacasian or perhaps Master race as in a Nazi.

(6) Silver I would think, but could be lead or iron as in "I am going to iron out the opposition"

(7) Might be Lon Chaney, before my time of course or not quite. Too little to watch scary movies. But did enjoy Buck Rogers and Hop Along Cassidy. Neither of whom were werewolves but did on occasion kiss threr horses which makes you wonder. See question (2)

Does one still say 'busted'? Or is that passe? In any case, Theresa, you got me. Yes I've not read the book. But that won't stop me playing along in the conversational arena. I'm here to learn all I can about hairy blood sucking blackflies. I mean werethingies. So please chat away, Bitten-ites! I'm looking forward to this.

Roger -- you should get at least half points for some of your answers...#3, for example. A brilliant deduction! Also #2, which, theoretically, should work. By the way, I'd like to read your version of the book, where she's born into disgrace and finds glory therein...! Sounds wonderful!

(p.s. great to 'see' you again! sounds like you're having a few blackfly wars the land o' lakes...! en garde!)

Well, Carin, I can tell you haven't even turned the first page of Bitten but by the time you reach the end of the book I'm sure you'll know most of the answers. Roger, thanks for posting but I'm grouping you with Carin in the answer category.

Victoria, great job. You are so close to a perfect score. Have you read the book yet or only flipped through it so far?

I'll give members another day or two to have their chance at the quiz before we begin the discussion. I look forward to your views on the book.

My chance of winning is no motivation. I just like to see my name in print, and be in Carin's company. Soooooooooooo, I'm in CAPS

1. In Bitten, Elena Michaels is the only one of her kind. What is she? THE LAST YELLOWKNIFE WIELDING BLACK FLY!

2. Current fiction leads us to believe there are two ways to become like the characters in our book choice. What are they? IMPERSONATION &/OR IMPREGNATION. . .

3. If you were to transform into the race depicted in our book choice, it is said you will see an increase in your speed, strength, aggressiveness and…? BODY HAIR!!

4. In Bitten the story revolves around a fictional race whose ruling body is the Pack. What name is used for those who do not belong to the Pack? SACKED!

5. The 2004 movie Underworld starred Kate Beckinsale as a death dealer, a mortal enemy of the race you’ll read about in Bitten. What race was she? SHE WAS BORN INTO DISCRACE AND FOUND GLORY THERE IN. . .

6. It is believed that the only way to eliminate the creatures of Bitten is with a weapon of which metal? FEROUS, AT ITS MOST RUST AFFECTED STATE, REDUCED TO RUST-DUST THAT WHEN INHALED BRINGS ON THE SLOW, AGONIZING DEATH DESERVED BY SUCH EVIL CREATURES! A WARNING TO ALL EVIL-MAKERS. DECREED BY THE LORD OF BLACK FLIES!!

7. In 1941 which actor’s portrayal of the creatures found in Bitten, forever catapulted them into the public consciousness?
I THINK CARIN IS CORRECT ABOUT LON BEING ICONIZED FOR THE ROLE. HOWEVER, THE REEL ;-)ACTOR WAS THE OBSCURE TIMOTHY TWIT, WHOSE GRAND DAUGHTER TWEETY TWICKED US TO TWITTER CONSCIOUSLY IN PUBLIC.
–
What fun! For me anyway

1. Female Werewolf
2. Born or bitten
3. smell, appetite (mostly for blood!)
4. Mutts
5. Vampire
6. silver
7. Lon Chaney

I want to win the delectable package! And because I'm not facilitating this book, I think I'm eligible to enter! I always KNEW there were advantages to not facilitating books.

On that note... may I introduce our 'first-other-than-me' Facilitaor...the brave and extraordinary Theresa Dekker. For those of you who don't know Theresa (where have you been if you don't know Theresa??) she is the smiling, brainy and unflappable Lovely-To-See-You-That'll-Be-Fifteen-Bucks person at the registration table every (every!) breakfast.

Thank you, Theresa! I so look forward to being merely a participant. I hope I don't become unruly.

On the note of participating, may I say I'm doing so without (so far) having read the book.

But here are my stabs at the quiz -- which, as I understand it, all I need to do to get my name in the draw for something delectable. (I am completely out of delectable, hence my strong desire to win.)

(My answers follow in BOLD AND HYSTERICAL TYPE)

1. In Bitten, Elena Michaels is the only one of her kind. What is she? WEREWOLF!!!

2. Current fiction leads us to believe there are two ways to become like the characters in our book choice. What are they? 1) NEGLECT PERSONAL HYGIENE. 2) GET, UH...NIPPED...NO, UM... BUMPED? NO, WAIT...IS IT bitten??)

3. If you were to transform into the race depicted in our book choice, it is said you will see an increase in your speed, strength, aggressiveness and…? IQ? (NO, WAIT, THAT'S A STUPID ANSWER.)


4. In Bitten the story revolves around a fictional race whose ruling body is the Pack. What name is used for those who do not belong to the Pack? LOSERS??

5. The 2004 movie Underworld starred Kate Beckinsale as a death dealer, a mortal enemy of the race you’ll read about in Bitten. What race was she? WHITE SUPREMIST?

6. It is believed that the only way to eliminate the creatures of Bitten is with a weapon of which metal? HEAVY?

7. In 1941 which actor’s portrayal of the creatures found in Bitten, forever catapulted them into the public consciousness? OKAY. I GOOGLED THIS ONE, BUT I SWEAR TO GOD, I WAS GOING TO SAY LON CHANEY... I SWEAR. IF I'M LYING, MAY I TURN INTO A YOU-KNOW-WHAT...

I don't have a copy of 'Testament of Youth' either, but here's something from Brittain's 'T. of Experience' that makes me smile.

"...Then, in order to fill an interminable afternoon, I rejoined the boat party for the trip to the Pyramids...I hardly saw the Nile as we crossed it, and without having consciously agreed, found myself suddenly hoisted on to the back of a camel.
"As everybody who has ridden one knows, this animal has a gait similar to the motion of a ship on a rough sea. Clinging dizzily to its hump, I surveyed the swaying Pyramids and dusty brown desert with extreme discomfort. These immemorial monuments had been crudely commercialized; stalls selling miscellaneous merchandis at their base recalled the booths and public lavatories half-way up Milan Cathedral. Even the Sphinx disappointed me by its insignificance; it must, I thought, usually have been photographed from below the tawny slopes where it squatted to give it an impressiveness not conspicuous from a camel's back."

Not sure if this is the right way to answer the 7 deadly 'sins' but I'm using this page anyway! It's too close to bedtime for me to figure things out on the website...

Most literary influence when I was a child?

I'd have to say Heidi because I have always been an incurable romantic, and, living in a smog filled industrial city, I often pined for the fresh mountain air and a slice of the Grandfather's goat cheese!

The premise of my earliest work?
I think it was shopping lists; yes, definitely shopping lists, and school essays. My essays were often posted on the classroom walls,( so the kids could stick gum all over them) together with the dog-eared shopping lists my mother dictated to me every morning before I left for school.

A writing routine?

In the words of an old song, 'Up in the morning, out on the job, work like a devil for my pay, while that lucky old sun keeps moving along; just rollin' round Heaven all day'

Favourite passage from a book?

How I wish I could get my hands on a copy of Vera Britten's 'Testament of Youth'. I could pick a paragraph at random and I guarantee the tissues would be soaked in a second from all your tears. Since I can't trace a copy, I would have to select any passage from Robert Bolt's play, 'A Man For All Seasons'. It's a brilliant script from start to finish.

Recurring themes in my work?

Women who are hard done by, but who are resilient to a fault;sort of modern day Cinderellas.

A Choice?

Secret Garden, Fried,Notebook,Ocean,Gallant,Memoir, Theatre

Why write?

I write because it releases deeply buried and sometimes dark emotions that need to see the light of day,besides which,I'm a masochist. I like the idea of self inflicting pain for eight hours a day. Did somebody mention money? Good grief! No! It never enters my head.

Betty, reading your post was a treat! Yes yes yes, support those indies anyway we can! Not only in support of our own industry, but as a thank-you to all those gorgeous memories. I feel sorry for kids who will never have anything like the pleasures you write about, whose idea of buying a book is clicking an order through a computer screen. They'll never know how much more there is to appreciating books... that it's more than the reading, it's the whole environment, a lifetime of 'the milieu of all things bookish'. That's what resonates.

I think one way we can 'help' saving the indies is by talking like this. Reminding ourselves and each other of the importance of bookstores, their contribution to culture and to society. The way they [and all small businesses] change a neighbourhood, when they arrive, and when they leave. Things that, when we get down to it, are far more important than cold hard economics.

In praise of the independant book stores- of course we must support them any way we can.

If you were born in my era you must remember the thrill of anticipation every time you were taken into a small dusty ( post war) book store. I always headed for the Enid Blyton books,(I was VERY young), while my mother searched for graphic True Crime mags, or Photoplay, so she could drool over pics of Vera Ellen's gams and Rhonda Fleming's hair. If I was lucky, I'd find a stack of gently used miniature 'newspapers' called 'Sunny Stories'.

Most of the gems on my bookshelves were found in second hand or independant book shops. Aside from the nostalgia, I think it behooves us as writers to support any type of bookstore. Anyone who is dedicated to fighting the good fight by staying in business, in spite of the giants like Chapters, has my vote. They are true lovers of the written word and in this age of electronics, we need the real book lover more and more.

Big isn't always best. Remember Eric Shumacker and 'small is beautiful'?

What a fascinating topic - and discussion, o RAW people!

I think that of course part of the problem with this is that Anne is so iconic. And yet the whole question of sexuality is already so intimately interwoven with the Diaries anyway - I remember in the junior high library copy of Anne Frank's Diary that the pages where Anne explores her awareness of her body, of Peter, of sexuality, were pretty well thumbed.

I've read Dogar's defense of why she wrote the story (the character wouldn't let her go). I can completely understand that. If a charge of commercialism is to be laid, it could be set at the feet of the publisher and their PR department who are busy stirring up and disseminating controversy several months before the book is to be released. But then, after all, that's what publishers are supposed to do - they're a business. And Lord knows, it's hard enough to make a living in publishing these days. (By the way, Dogar insists that sexuality is less of an issue in this book than it is in the diaries).

But I digress from the question, "it [always] wrong to take a piece of non-fiction and look at it from a fictional POV, in order to open it up, to ask questions? Or is it only wrong in this case because it's Anne?" I have no problem with what Dogar has done here. I've read her defense of the book - she says that the real characters of Anne and Peter were with her during the whole process, front and centre in her mind. She says that she was very aware of the danger of being exploitative. It sounds like she's been well intentioned and respectful. I'm actually curious enough to read the book now. (The PR is working!) As a writer who moves between fiction, non-fiction, and memoir, I am intrigued by the questions posed here and would like to see for myself how Dogar managed the tightrope she chose to walk.

Finally, the Anne Frank diaries are 60 years or more old. IF this new book inspires young adults to read both, if it engages their empathy in a respectful way, I don't have a problem with it.



The guardian has an interesting opinion piece on the whole matter of fictionalizing real people - worth reading.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2010/jun/22/sharon-dogar-annexed

New question on the table: how can we, as writers, help Save the Independent Book Store?
Okay, uh, how's this... we buy our books there. True, they're often more expensive -- so? It's like paying more for a particular car, or a certain brand of ice cream we favour.

If we don't support the price of publishing, who will?

The book isn't out until Fall. So all we know of it is through the pre-release buzz. Like Betty, I have no intention of reading it; I simply have no interest in a 'fictional' account of Peter's POV in a real event. That aside, the question remains: is this exploitation or art?

And the bigger question: is it [always] wrong to take a piece of non-fiction and look at it from a fictional POV, in order to open it up, to ask questions? Or is it only wrong in this case because it's Anne?

As an aside: her father, Otto, on finding the diary, had originally published it with about 70% of the contents missing because they were too 'personal' and made reference to her growing awareness of her body. He said on reading it he 'didn't recognize his daughter in the words'.

There was a furor over the eventual publication of the complete diary, even though the words were Anne's own and some schools refuse to allow it on their shelves.

What is it we're so afraid of?

I'm thinking what's important is the treatment of the subject. And the intention of the author in writing a book. If it's disrespectful and exploitative, that's one thing. But if the subject of Anne, in ANNEXED, is merely a launching pad to explore the possibilities of another side of what she may have experienced, then doesn't that only make her more 'accessible' to us, and especially to young readers who may then go on to read the diary, having understood her in a way they can relate to?

By the way, I am in NO WAY defending the book. I haven't read it. I'm merely juggling some thoughts on the can of worms this 'event' has opened. (How's that for a mixed metaphor?)

Hi Carin and Roger, I have to admit to being sickened by the entire concept. We have become a race of 'spoilers' who cannot wait to sully anything that smacks of innocence or purity or beauty.

I read the blurbs and am gratified by the disapproval of the majority of commentators so far. I think about the isolation and the immense suffering of Anne Frank and her people, and prefer to believe the human condition in those horrendous times was not consumed by sex, drugs, and self-gratification in all its forms.

Survival was surely their predominant preoccupation? Survival and courage and concern for their fellow man. Ah, the good old days when people had principles...

I am in agreement with the sentiments expressed that some people will stoop to any depths to make a few bucks, and honestly, I'm more saddened to realize I'm not surprised by it all. Nothing, it seems, is sacred anymore.

I won't be giving it any of my precious reading time, but it will spark some heated discussion. Ciao for now, Betty

Hey Carin, this will undoubtedly generate good discussion. Not having read the book -- has anyone? -- I can only attempt to not be biased. Ain't going to be easy:-)

First question: Was the Frank Estate consulted?
Second question: (Statement?) Could the author not have found another subject, with a less iconic and respected persona than Anne to exploit?

Re: "...how (can) fiction be harmful...?" That's an ongoing debate. However, studies indicate that violence and horrific-pornography does tend to negatively influence some viewers/readers.

Would Peter's 'fictional' involvement with bestiality or pedopheiia while in the attic, be socially acceptable?

Of course there IS a 'closet-market' somewhere for everything.

Carin, I agree this is marketing strategy, on the lowest level of promotion. I do not support Censoring that restricts 'truth' facts and information. However I am not rigidly attached to any stand on any matter.

Soooo. . . Ya knowwadimsayin'?? Roger

Hi Roger -- you beat me to it. The question is this: is it acceptable to write a piece of fiction (based on an existing work of non-fiction) from the perspective of another person?

In the case of ANNEXED, the author has written a novel in the form of a (fictious) diary by Peter, the teenaged boy who lived shared the attic with the Franks, and his own family, in which he reveals the 'sexy' side of things between himself and Anne. The book has yet to come out (so all this is wonderful promotion... but it's also a very interesting subject).

I've done some mulling on this and so far don't see how writing a 'fiction' can be either harmful or disrespectful. Would we question a work of fiction from the POV of, say, Pepys wife, for example? Isn't that what art is? Taking what's real and turning it upside down and inside out and asking what if, what if??

No one's saying the sexy stuff is true. Only that it might be something to consider. Again, isn't that what fiction asks us to do?

I also wonder if Anne Frank's Diary is somehow seen as more than a 'book'. It's become such a symbol of a horrific event that it's treated more like a document -- a category unto its own.

Where's the "Chat" about 'Annexed'? How closely does it resemble 'Anne Frank's Diary?' Not very i hope. . . Will a chapter or so be here to read? "...teenage sexuality" could be an unending topic. Where to start?? Where to end??